Eric Trump Grilled On Stand In Father’s Fraud Trial

Donald Trump and his associates are on trial for alleged fraud in New York. Two of those associates—the former president’s sons, Don Jr. and Eric Trump—are slated to take the stand today.

Refresh your browser and follow along below for a live account of the proceedings, which will be updated throughout the day.

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9:57 a.m.: Donald Trump Jr. enters the courtroom, wearing a navy blue suit, pink shirt and light blue tie. Like yesterday, he has his hair slicked back and is sporting a beard.

About 10 a.m.: “All rise!” Judge Arthur Engoron enters the courtroom and springs up the steps to his perch, as he does on most days. While everyone is standing, Trump attorney Chris Kise enters the court room. He smiles at New York Attorney General Letitia James, who is sitting in her usual spot near the entrance.

About 10:05 a.m.: The judge calls in the photographers. While they were snapping pictures yesterday, Don Jr. joked, “I should have worn makeup.” The judge references that now. “Did you remember for today?” he asks. Laughter bubbles up at the front of the court room.

10:43 a.m.: Don Jr. is now on the stand, responding to questions from Colleen Faherty of the attorney general’s office. At the start, she opened up this 2017 email from a former Forbes reporter, Noah Kirsch. Subject: “URGENT Factchecking Inquiry from Forbes.”

10:45 a.m.: At the time, we at Forbes were wrapping up an entire issue dedicated to Donald Trump’s business. It was an all-hands-on-deck affair from the wealth team, which compiles the magazine’s rankings of billionaires. We had a lot of fact-checking questions, which Kirsch was sending to Alan Garten, a lawyer at the Trump Organization.

10:52 a.m.: Among those questions were several relating to Donald Trump’s penthouse atop Trump Tower, which he had previously claimed was 33,000 square feet. We believed at the time—thanks to digging from another Forbes reporter, Chase Peterson-Withorn—that Trump’s apartment was actually only 10,996 square feet.

11:09 a.m.: Alan Garten forwarded this email, which included lots of information, to Donald Trump Jr. The real estate heir responded briefly. Don Jr. now says he does not remember the exchange. The implication that the attorney general’s office seems to be making is that Don Jr. should have been aware that his father’s penthouse was about 11,000 square feet. Yet the Trump Organization continued to list the apartment at 30,000 square feet.

11:17 a.m.: Although Forbes believed the penthouse was 10,996 square feet—and used that figure in its internal calculations, we were continuing to review everything before publishing a story on it. It wasn’t until May 3, 2017 that Peterson-Withorn exposed Trump’s deceit publicly, with an article headlined “Donald Trump Has Been Lying About The Size Of His Penthouse.” After that story came out, the Trump Organization finally changed its calculations to reflect the true size of the penthouse.

11:24 a.m.: The attorney general’s office then brought up representations the Trump Organization made to its accountants at an outside firm, Mazars, which compiled Donald Trump’s net-worth statements. In one document that appeared on the screen, the Trump Organization said to Mazars, “We have not knowingly withheld from you any financial records or related data that in our judgment would be relevant to your compilation.”

11:33 a.m.: Don Jr. has been responding by saying he had nothing to do with these documents. He is trying to assign responsibility to the accountants. But there’s a circular logic to this. The accountants relied on information from the Trump Organization, and now one of the leaders of the Trump Organization says he relied only on the accountants. No one seems eager to take responsibility for these net-worth documents, which inflated the size of Donald Trump’s fortune for years.

11:40 a.m.: Don Jr. steps down from the witness stand, puts his hands in his pockets and walks out of the courtroom. Cameras flash when the doors open.

11:44 a.m.: “The people call Eric Trump,” says a lawyer with the attorney general’s office. Eric walks up to the stand and settles in, adjusting a light-blue tie on a white shirt. He has a navy blue suit overtop. The attorney general’s office begins with easy questions, asking if Eric went to Georgetown and whether the Trump Organization consists of hundreds of entities.

11:51 a.m.: Now things are getting more specific. The attorney general’s office asks about Seven Springs, Donald Trump’s mansion in Bedford, New York. Eric Trump confirms that he lived there during the summers when he was in high school and later took on some responsibility for the project.

11:52 a.m.: Of all of the assets on Donald Trump’s net-worth statements, Seven Springs was one of the most egregiously inflated properties. The attorney general’s office pulls up some documents that cite Eric Trump in coming up with the calculation of its value.

11:57 a.m.: Eric appears to be taking the same stance as Don Jr. did: “I never had anything to do with the statement of financial condition,” he says, referencing the net-worth documents.

11:59 a.m.: Eric seems to offer his explanation for how his name could have ended up on the documents, even if he didn’t work on the net-worth statements. “People ask me questions all of the time, but I never worked on the statement of financial condition,” he says.

12:02 p.m.: An interesting dynamic is unfolding here. Eric is accustomed to doing interviews with the media. He has far less experience being on a witness stand in open court. Under questioning, he is answering yes-or-no questions with expansive, and arguably evasive, responses. The judge offers a little coaching, which he has provided to several witnesses in this trial: If it’s a yes or no question, just answer “yes” or “no.” Eric responds politely: “Thank you.”

12:09 p.m.: Eric’s answers seem to have gotten shorter and more clipped. He is serious on the stand. No joking around, like we saw with Don Jr.

12:10 p.m.: The attorney general’s office is pressing Eric to confirm that a particular document was referring to his father’s net-worth statements. Eric appears to be getting frustrated, as the attorney continues to examine him. “Not my question,” says the lawyer from the attorney general’s office. Eric responds, “I think it was.” The judge disagrees with Eric: “That didn’t answer your question.”

12:24 p.m.: The lawyer with the attorney general’s office appears to be getting a little tense as well. “That. Wasn’t. My. Question,” he says at one point. The judge weighs in: “I agree, that did not answer the question.”

12:28 p.m.: This is now getting damning. The attorney general’s office pulls up an email to Eric Trump from Jeff McConney, who helped prepare Donald Trump’s net-worth statements. “Hi Eric,” the lawyer reads. “I’m working on your dad’s annual financial statement. I need to value Seven Springs. Attached please find how we valued it last year, and let me know when you have time to talk.” This seems to undercut Eric’s testimony that he “never had anything to do with the statement of financial condition.”

12:35 p.m.: The Trump Organization kept track of how it calculated Donald Trump’s net worth with a series of spreadsheets. Part of one of those spreadsheets was attached to that email. Eric Trump holds a document, which I think is the attachment, on the stand. At various points, the paper appears to be shaking in his hand.

12:43 p.m.: There’s more evidence that appears to undercut Eric’s testimony. The attorney general’s office brings up another email to Eric Trump from McConney, one of the numbers guys at the Trump Organization. “I’m working on the notes to Mr. Trump’s annual financial statement and I’d like to include any major construction work that was started, completed, contemplated at our golf courses during the last year (i.e. July 2012—now),” the email begins. “Ex. Doral-we’re doing a complete overhaul of the Blue Monster at a cost of $xxx mil. Something short and sweet is all I need. Thanks in advance for your help. Jeff.” Again, this seems inconsistent with Eric’s testimony that he “never had anything to do with the statement of financial condition.”

12:48 p.m.: We are now on a lunch break. Eric Trump goes off the stand and walks out of the room. The court should be back in session around 2:15 p.m.

2:30 p.m.: We are back in the court room after a lunch recess, and Donald Trump’s son, Eric, remains on the stand. The break did not do much to ease the tension in the room. Eric is trying to distance himself from the net-worth statements at the heart of the trial, but there are emails showing his involvement in calculations used for those statements.

2:41 p.m.: This is getting rough for Eric. The attorney general’s office is juxtaposing a series of documents with statements Eric made during his sworn deposition and testimony he is now giving in open court. There seems to be contradiction after contradiction.

2:46 p.m.: For example: In one instance during his deposition, Eric said, “I had no involvement in this. I don’t think I had ever seen it. I have no recollection of ever providing Jeff [McConney] material to be used in a statement that I’ve never seen.” And yet now we’re looking at documented evidence of Eric doing exactly that—providing material to Jeff McConney that was used in the net-worth statements, which are more formally known as statements of financial condition.

3:02 p.m.: The attorney general is zeroing in on Seven Springs, a mansion in Bedford, New York, which was the subject of earlier testimony today. This property was one of the most obviously inflated assets in Donald Trump’s net-worth calculation. Forbes values the place at $30 million today. In 2012 and 2013, as you can see on the document below, the Trump Organization valued the property at $291 million.

3:07 p.m.: Even Donald Trump, not typically one to downplay the value of his assets, admitted that the $291 million figure was inflated. In a sworn deposition prior to this trial, the former president claimed that the Trump Organization changed its valuation of the property “because I felt it was high when I saw this.”

3:17 p.m.: By 2021, the most recent year for which I have seen a net-worth statement, the Trump Organization had the value of the New York estate at $37.65 million. That’s a bit higher than the $30 million Forbes attributes to it, but it’s defensible.

3:22 p.m.: The court goes on a brief break. Eric Trump comes down from the witness stand and strolls out of the courtroom, walking by attorney general Letitia James on the way out. He gives her a friendly smile and nod, then proceeds to the doors. The minute they open, the camera flashes start exploding. The court should be back in session at about 3:35 p.m.

3:36 p.m.: “All rise!” The judge enters the room, where Eric Trump is stationed between the two tables of lawyers, directly in front of the judge. The officer tells everyone they can be seated, and Eric jogs up to the witness stand. He settles in and gives a little smile. He appears more relaxed now than he has at other times today.

3:40 p.m.: The attorney general turns from Seven Springs to the Trump National Golf Club in Briarcliff Manor, New York. Eric is intimately familiar with this course and hosted charity fundraisers there for years.

3:58 p.m.: More relevant to this case, the property was another asset that was wildly inflated on Donald Trump’s net-worth statements. For Trump’s 2014 statement, he listed the value of the property at $122 million. Here’s an income statement from that property in 2014, which I obtained a few years ago. It shows a net income of $1.1 million in 2014.

4:02 p.m.: Figuring out a precise value for a property can be difficult, but determining when something is way off can be fairly simple. Why would any serious investor pay $122 million for an asset that throws off $1.1 million of profit per year?

4:15 p.m.: The attorney general’s office is noting apparent contradictions in Eric Trump’s testimony. In his deposition, Eric said, “I really haven’t been involved in appraisal work on this property.” But the state has displayed multiple pieces of evidence that show he was involved. Eric says he stands by his previous testimony, but also admits, “I was clearly involved,” insisting his involvement was minimal.

4:38 p.m.: The proceedings have gone awry. An objection led the judge to admonish Trump lawyer Chris Kise. “Do not refer to my staff,” the judge says. The background here is that the judge has previously put a gag order on Donald Trump, prohibiting him from talking about his staff, out of concerns for the safety of his law clerk. The admonishment prompts Kise to level new criticism of interactions between the law clerk and judge. “Your points are not well-taken,” the judge says. Kise continues to object, and the judge eventually starts literally pounding the table in disagreement. Meanwhile, Eric Trump is still sitting on the stand, looking down at various points, with his hands folded in a tent in front of him.

4:40 p.m.: With that, the proceedings end for the day. Eric comes down from the stand and nods to the attorney general on his way out of the courtroom.